Minesweeper X Suggestions

Area to discuss development and bugs of official clones (Clone, Arbiter, MSX, Viennasweeper)

Minesweeper X Suggestions

Postby CBright » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:29 pm

I'm working on tying up loose ends in the current version of Minesweeper X (such as allowing player names in videos), so this would be a good time to ask for suggestions.

I don't want to change things too much, but feel free to suggest major things; I'll take them into account if I work on the cross-platform version I've been wanting to do. For example, I have a feeling the auto-saving options should be reworked, but I actually have no idea how pro minesweepers use options like this. So what are the most important features? I'd like to keep things simple, but still cover as much functionality as possible.
CBright
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:53 pm

Re: Minesweeper X Suggestions

Postby KamilSaper » Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:41 pm

Autosaving works well ( I save all finished games, it's simple but at least it works - autosaving on Clone doesnt work for me) so if u want to keep MSX simple I dont think it should be changed. A few things that I think should be changed:
1. MSX forgets decimal highscores after turning it off (when I open it next time its XX,00), it should be repaired.
2. A bit better history file would be fine (or at least create 3 txt files for 3 different levels: I play Beg and Int on MSX and I open it from 2 different folders because I dont want to have mixed Beg and Int scores in 1 history file)
3. Some videos replay tool would be nice, at least to slow down vids and to stop them at any time
4. Create own MSX's icon (It can be very simple, for example change colour), "MX" looks strange in the rankings.
5. Repair red timer bug. Time is 40,00 -> score should be 41, not 40.
0.49 - 7.03 - 31.13
NF: 0.49 - 7.03 - 31.51
KamilSaper
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:16 pm

Re: Minesweeper X Suggestions

Postby DMarden » Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:41 pm

I would like to see an Auto-reset option implemented. Also, if possible, I would like the statistics to show the number of mines remaining along with the number of unclicked/unflagged squares remaining.

Thanks.
DMarden
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:43 pm

Re: Minesweeper X Suggestions

Postby EWQMinesweeper » Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:07 pm

although i hardly ever use msx (only for really huge boards or to play custom skins) here's my input, based on what i really like about other versions:

indices:

msx counts double clicks (clicking both mouse buttons at the same time) as a double and a right click when the right mouse button is not pressed at exactly the same time as the left button. although vsweep and clone have the same problem, it is really nice that this was fixed in arbiter. in my case this reduced my cl/s by up to 1 cl/s.

it would be nice to have more indices, maybe even a way to customize the counters window. indices that might be important to help sweepers improve their playing or gain a deeper understanding of good solving are imho: zini, zini/s, openings, total clicks, total cl/s, ioe, throughput, correctness, path, flags.

auto-saving: although arbiter takes a while to get used its auto-saving of all completed games was the only one i ever got to work (ok, vsweep is even less work, actually its auto-save is standard). i just save all my finished arbiter games and i like that with a right-click on the counters i can preview the replay or save the replay with just 2 clicks. i use these two features quite often.

upk mode: i hardly ever use it for my own games, but sometimes i try to beat the times other people got on certain boards.

kamil's points 1, 2 and 3

qqwref's multimine online version allows almost infinite board sizes and has scroll bars. i know there would be hardly any people using this (only 5 of the ~250 sweepers i know would probably play such huge boards)

there's a loophole with custom skins. if you complete a game with a custom skin and load the replay while having set a different skin, the replay plays using the current skin. for example this makes it impossible to verify that a game was played with the blanks skin or with the no-numbers skin

player name in the replay is imho a must. since without it there is no authentification that a certain player really played a game himself and not just copied an msx game he found on damien's rankings (this has actually happened with clone replays, which a person has sent to damien as their own. damien didn't notice that he had already seen the games and the nicknames, but with so many thousand replays he has already seen he takes no blame there).

keep up the good work :D
„Das perlt jetzt aber richtig über, ma sagn. Mach ma' noch'n Bier! Wie heißt das? Biddä! Bidddää! Biddddäää! Reiner Weltladen!“
EWQMinesweeper
 
Posts: 410
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Minesweeper X Suggestions

Postby Tjips » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:32 am

Ok, I'll try to keep it brief :D.

The major things I can see in the current version (1.14.2) of msx is:
  • The incorrect click counting [name removed]mentioned... (I got my first beg 1 while checking msx's counting, so thx for that :P)
  • F2 not working when left-button is depressed (either alone or in a double-click)
  • The rounding "bug" mentioned by KAmil. (yes, I know that technically it's correct, but the accepted way to relay the score of a XX,00 game is as XX+1 in the community.)

Those are to my mind the major things that need to be fixed. Another thing to bring up would be the timestamp/rounding problems in the .mvr's brought up in the human-readable video format thread, but I don't know the details of that problem...

On the stats: I think the base set of stats any clone needs to include is:
  • time, est. time
  • solved 3bv, 3bv, 3bv/s
  • total clicks, clicks/s
  • IOE, zini, and throughput
With this set you cover most of the bases i.t.o. what a pro would want. I think in msx's capacity as the more light-weight of the clones it might be somewhat counter productive to expand the counters much further, although I don't really know whether you goal is to fill this niche. Notable exclusions from the list are the left-, right- and doule-click counts, as well as correctness. The click breakdown imo doesn't really mean too much as it varies quite a bit for different boards, so it isn't really useful (in my experience), but including it wouldn't really bother me too much. The reason correctness isn't necessary is because when you see your IOE and throughput together you instantly know basically whether your correctness was good or not. Notable inclusions that aren't currently in msx are IOE, zini, and throughput. IOE and zini are absolutely essential, 3bv to indicate the difficulty of the board for NF, and zini to do the same for FL. Zini isn't all that hard to implement, so you won't have a hard time of it (I think). Throughput has shown itself to be quite a good indicator of the quality of a solve (a better indicator in some respects than IOE), so it's inclusion would be awesome.

Counters I'd like to see included along with those mentioned above would be: zini/s, openings, flags (flags shows how many flags where placed in the game, ie. how many flags where on the board when the game ended)

Other that those points I can only think of IRC integration. I'm not talking all sorts of funky info copy options like arbiter, but just a last-played game thing. Arbiter's implimentation is great, and it basically just puts a /me line with the info from the last game ended (won or lost) in the clipboard so you just crtl+v in the IRC chat to share your game with the other ppl. This function is one of the 3 main reasons I use Arb... :P

Unfounded wish: double-click to restart :D Although manu would object to that idea...

Ok, done. Thanks for all the hard work CBright. :ugeek:
The number of minesweeper boards:
Exp: 140055249834355336357264746443955277014822625680974475320364702381803619892657792049596418323789908370400 (1.4e104)
Int: 13115156192346373485000211099954895788134532256 (1.3e46) &
Beg: 18934455246 (1.9e10)
:D
User avatar
Tjips
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:15 am
Location: South Africa

Re: Minesweeper X Suggestions

Postby CBright » Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:04 am

KamilSaper wrote:1. MSX forgets decimal highscores after turning it off (when I open it next time its XX,00), it should be repaired.
It loses the values after the decimal? I've never seen this happen. Anyone know if it only happens on specific versions of Windows?

KamilSaper wrote:2. A bit better history file would be fine (or at least create 3 txt files for 3 different levels: I play Beg and Int on MSX and I open it from 2 different folders because I dont want to have mixed Beg and Int scores in 1 history file)
That's a clever workaround. In the future I'll think about making it easier to separate the different levels...

KamilSaper wrote:3. Some videos replay tool would be nice, at least to slow down vids and to stop them at any time
I've been thinking about making a sort of "universal video player" which would be able to play all formats with good replay functionality and counters. However, a problem is I don't know anyone who knows the MVF format...

Also, adding a "replay video" would be easy enough, though I don't really want to clutter up the menu so maybe I'll just add a keyboard shortcut.

KamilSaper wrote:4. Create own MSX's icon (It can be very simple, for example change colour), "MX" looks strange in the rankings.
I did play around with changing the colour, I might use that for the cross-platform version.

KamilSaper wrote:5. Repair red timer bug. Time is 40,00 -> score should be 41, not 40.
I know there is precidence here, but this was something I changed from the original. Arbiter seems to do the same thing. I suppose I could change it as long as there is an accepted standard...

DMarden wrote:I would like to see an Auto-reset option implemented.
Reset at a certain time? That kind of changes the gameplay, but I'll keep it in mind...

DMarden wrote:I would like the statistics to show the number of mines remaining
So number of mines which haven't been flagged? Probably a stat which could be included in the video player I was thinking of, along with the stats listed by others.

EWQMinesweeper wrote:msx counts double clicks (clicking both mouse buttons at the same time) as a double and a right click when the right mouse button is not pressed at exactly the same time as the left button. although vsweep and clone have the same problem, it is really nice that this was fixed in arbiter. in my case this reduced my cl/s by up to 1 cl/s.
Interesting, I think someone should come up with a standard for counting clicks...

EWQMinesweeper wrote:upk mode: i hardly ever use it for my own games, but sometimes i try to beat the times other people got on certain boards.
I think this should be kept to a separate program; Clone had a number of vulnerabilities because of this.

EWQMinesweeper wrote:qqwref's multimine online version allows almost infinite board sizes and has scroll bars. i know there would be hardly any people using this (only 5 of the ~250 sweepers i know would probably play such huge boards)
A good idea; not sure if worth the extra complexity...

EWQMinesweeper wrote:there's a loophole with custom skins. if you complete a game with a custom skin and load the replay while having set a different skin, the replay plays using the current skin. for example this makes it impossible to verify that a game was played with the blanks skin or with the no-numbers skin
Yeah, I never anticipated people playing competitively with skins. Luckily I don't think many people care about this?

Tjips wrote:F2 not working when left-button is depressed (either alone or in a double-click)
This also happens in the original. :)

Tjips wrote:Another thing to bring up would be the timestamp/rounding problems in the .mvr's brought up in the human-readable video format thread, but I don't know the details of that problem...
Yeah, I anticipate a different format in the next major release.
CBright
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:53 pm

Re: Minesweeper X Suggestions

Postby DMarden » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:33 am

CBright wrote:
DMarden wrote:I would like to see an Auto-reset option implemented.
Reset at a certain time? That kind of changes the gameplay, but I'll keep it in mind...
I wasn't very specific. I meant auto-reset when blasted like in Arbiter. But I guess a timed auto-reset might be an additional feature that would appeal to those who want to beat a time-record.
DMarden
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:43 pm

Re: Minesweeper X Suggestions

Postby EWQMinesweeper » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:38 am

he means auto-f2 on blast when completition is less than xy%
auto-f2 if time exceeds xy seconds was not very practical in arbiter.

about counting clicks: well, a double click is 1 click

custom skins: no, there were only 5 people who ever competed for non-flagging-no-numbers and 3 who played the blanks skin

kamil's point 1: happens on xp home
„Das perlt jetzt aber richtig über, ma sagn. Mach ma' noch'n Bier! Wie heißt das? Biddä! Bidddää! Biddddäää! Reiner Weltladen!“
EWQMinesweeper
 
Posts: 410
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Minesweeper X Suggestions

Postby KamilSaper » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:54 am

CBright wrote: KamilSaper wrote:1. MSX forgets decimal highscores after turning it off (when I open it next time its XX,00), it should be repaired.

It loses the values after the decimal? I've never seen this happen. Anyone know if it only happens on specific versions of Windows?

It happens both on xp and 7

Also, autosaving options reset when I reinstall my windows (so before I noticed it, I lost stats and replays of all games played for 2 weeks), MSX should remember them.
0.49 - 7.03 - 31.13
NF: 0.49 - 7.03 - 31.51
KamilSaper
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:16 pm

Re: Minesweeper X Suggestions

Postby CBright » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:27 pm

KamilSaper wrote:It happens both on xp and 7
Ok, I found the problem: a conversion function which only worked when the decimal separator was a period.

KamilSaper wrote:Also, autosaving options reset when I reinstall my windows (so before I noticed it, I lost stats and replays of all games played for 2 weeks), MSX should remember them.
And saving the configuration to its directory would make it more portable (though settings between copies in two different directories wouldn't synchronize).

Anyway, I will probably release a new version soon with a few updates. Thanks for the feedback, I will consider it even though I want to try to keep MSX simple as possible, otherwise you can just use Clone or Arbiter. ;)
CBright
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:53 pm

Re: Minesweeper X Suggestions

Postby DMarden » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:07 pm

I'd like to have the toggled option of having left-click on a flag act in the same manner as a double-click (chording)
DMarden
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:43 pm

Re: Minesweeper X Suggestions

Postby CBright » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:50 pm

DMarden wrote:I'd like to have the toggled option of having left-click on a flag act in the same manner as a double-click (chording)
I assume you mean left click on a number acts like chording. That certainly would be too much of a change! Though it's unclear why the original did not use this method; maybe chording requiring a different action was conceptually simpler? See Mines-Perfect for a clone which does this.

And Minesweeper X 1.15 has now been released, with player name in videos (see auto options) and a shortcut for replaying videos. And some obscure mouse handling fixes I found when dealing with rawvf.
CBright
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:53 pm

Re: Minesweeper X Suggestions

Postby qqwref » Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:16 am

One idea for dealing with skins would be to add the skin into the video file, perhaps compressed into PNG format (I think this would typically be 2-4 KB) - but ONLY if the "custom skin" option is selected. I don't know how hard it would be to modify the video format this way and keep backwards compatibility, but it's an interesting idea to consider, and it would ensure that videos using a specific skin keep that skin. When you view a video, if it doesn't include a specific skin it would display with whatever skin you're currently using, but if it does then it would display with the included skin.

Another suggestion would be with the way MSX handles videos. Right now, opening a video immediately starts playing it at full speed. I'd prefer for it to start paused, with buttons to play or pause the video at any point, and possibly a button to start the video at the beginning again. MSX would become a bit more complex, but I think it would be a lot easier to view videos with these kind of basic controls.
NF player. Best scores 1-10-39.
qqwref
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:17 pm


Return to Official Clones

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron