MSLive Tournament 2010

[EWQMinesweeper]

Matches:

Group Stage (Best of 19 matches - 10 wins):

Group 1:
Pavel vs. David | 10:1
Arsen vs. Dayan | 10:3
Pavel vs. Arsen | 10:1
David vs. Dayan | 10:1
Pavel vs. Dayan | 10:3
Arsen vs. David | 6:10


position/matches/won/lost/games (won:lost)
1. Pavel / 3 / 3 / 0 / 30:5
2. David / 3 / 2 / 1 / 21:17
3. Arsen / 3 / 1 / 2 / 17:23
4. Dayan / 3 / 0 / 3 / 7:30


Group 2:
Fritz vs. Ramil | 10:0
Ian vs. Bertie |
Fritz vs. Ian | 10:3
Ramil vs. Bertie | 2:10
Fritz vs. Bertie | 10 :0
Ian vs. Ramil |


position/matches/won/lost/games (won:lost)
1. Fritz / 3 / 3 / 0 / 30:3
2. Bertie / 2 / 1 / 1 / 10:12
3. Ian / 1 / 0 / 1 / 3:10
3. Ramil / 2 / 0 / 2 / 2:20


Group 3:
Manu vs. Luke | 10:0
Tommy vs. Aris | 10:0
Manu vs. Tommy | 10:2
Luke vs. Aris |
Manu vs. Aris | 10:1
Tommy vs. Luke | 10:5


position/matches/won/lost/games (won:lost)
1. Manu / 3 / 3 / 0 / 30:3
2. Tommy / 3 / 2 / 1 / 22:15
3. Aris / 2 / 0 / 2 / 1:20
4. Luke / 2 / 0 / 2 / 5:20


Group 4:
Kamil vs. Reid | 10:0
Damien vs. Yunano | 10:3
Kamil vs. Damien | 10:1
Reid vs. Yunano |
Kamil vs. Yunano | 10:1
Damien vs. Reid | 10:2


position/matches/won/lost/games (won:lost)
1. Kamil / 3 / 3 / 0 / 30:2
2. Damien / 3 /2 / 1 / 21:15
3. Yunano / 2 / 0 /2 / 4:20
4. Reid / 2 / 0 / 2 / 2:20


*If 2 Sweepers win the same amount of matches the one who won the match between the 2 of them will be ranked better.
*If 3 Sweepers win the same amount of matches the difference between won and lost games will be decicive.
*more to come


1/4 Finals (Best of 25):

match #1: Pavel vs. Damien | 13:9
match #2: Bertie vs. Manu | 1:13
match #3: Fritz vs. Tommy | 13:1
match #4: David vs. Kamil | 1:13


1/2 Finals (Best of 29):

Pavel vs. Manu | 0:15
Fritz vs. Kamil | 7:15


3rd Place (Best of 39):

Pavel vs. Fritz | 5:20


Final (Best of 39):

Manu vs. Kamil




some suggestions:

the easiest way to set up matches is joining the irc-chat via http://www.mibbit.com/chat/, server irc.newnet.net, port 6667, channel #minesweeper

please make sure you check this thread, the guestbook, the irc-channel and mslive regularly during the tourny to make sure you and your opponent can meet online and play the match.

[Tjips]

I have a slight problem with the draw. Well, not so much with the draw, but with the starting pools/lots of 4 taken from the AR. The ranking taken from the AR does not take into account the fact that even though a player is not submitting, they are still on form. Case in point: Ian. The only reason he is ranked 6th and not 4th is because he missed submission for 2 consecutive periods, which caused him to have 15 less points than his form would suggest he should have. The same kind of thing goes for Tommy. (and a few others, but only Tommy's and Ian's would change the starting lots.)

One of the main goals of this method of drawing a tournament schedule is to ensure that the top players don't eliminate each other in the early rounds. This penalty point effect has caused that 2 of the top 4 player in the world (going on form, no offense to Pavel) are facing each other in the group stage. This is like having Brazil face France or Germany in the group stage of a Football WC.

I think this effect in the draw is unfair to all the players in this tourney (whether it gives them an unfair advantage or disadvantage) and that the it unbalances the groups more than the this tournament layout is capable of handling. I suggest that we redraw after recalculating who is who in the rank of the 16 competitors. The way I suggest we do this is by replacing a players penalized time with his average time up to that point in the AR. (or of the period before and after the one in which he had a penalized score)

[EWQMinesweeper]

One of the main goals of this method of drawing a tournament schedule is to ensure that the top players don't eliminate each other in the early rounds. This penalty point effect has caused that 2 of the top 4 player in the world (going on form, no offense to Pavel) are facing each other in the group stage. This is like having Brazil face France or Germany in the group stage of a Football WC.

if some of them don't win enough matches it might happen that they are facing each other already in the group stage...other groups aren't any easier with manu and tommy, kamil and damien, yunano and reid.

[KamilSaper]

Kamil-Yunano 10-1

[Arsen]

Arsen 1 - 10 Pavel

[KamilSaper]

Kamil - Reid 10-0

[Dayan Marchezi]

Pavel vs. Dayan | 10:3

[EWQMinesweeper]

ian vs fritz: 3:10

21:19:28 <Mucleus>: okay, match time
21:19:32 <Mucleus>: good luck fritz
21:19:42 <EWQMinesweeper>: good luck ian
21:20:41 <tkolar>: good luck both of you
21:20:47 <aradesh>: gl guys
21:21:04 <aradesh>: don't go its bad luck

21:21:07 <EWQMinesweeper>: 60s
21:21:08 <EWQMinesweeper>: 1-0
21:21:13 <EWQMinesweeper>: so nervous at the end

21:24:54 <Mucleus>: 61
21:25:00 <Mucleus>: 0 mines :$
21:25:03 <EWQMinesweeper>: 1 mine but only 2 clicks to go
21:25:09 <aradesh>: 1-1
21:25:11 <Mucleus>: ouch

21:26:29 <EWQMinesweeper>: 58
21:26:31 <EWQMinesweeper>: 0 mines
21:26:34 <EWQMinesweeper>: 2-1
21:26:35 <Mucleus>: I sucked hard at that one

21:28:26 <Mucleus>: 66 D:
21:28:26 <EWQMinesweeper>: 66 with 1 mine
21:28:28 <EWQMinesweeper>: 2-2
21:28:37 <Mucleus>: tense stuff

21:28:43 <NYMIKE>: both of your time seem slow?
21:28:56 <Mucleus>: I went a stupid path round the board
21:29:00 <Mucleus>: and also I'm not in form
21:29:03 <EWQMinesweeper>: i haven't even opened any ms version in the past 71 hours

21:30:37 <EWQMinesweeper>: 65 and no mines
21:30:40 <EWQMinesweeper>: 3-2
21:30:42 <Mucleus>: 3 mines, not near completing
21:30:47 <EWQMinesweeper>: ouch

21:32:53 <EWQMinesweeper>: 59
21:32:56 <EWQMinesweeper>: that was close
21:32:59 <EWQMinesweeper>: 4-2
21:33:01 <Mucleus>: 60, damn!
21:33:05 <Mucleus>: haha

21:35:36 <Mucleus>: 59, 0 mines
21:35:41 <EWQMinesweeper>: 5 squares left
21:35:44 <EWQMinesweeper>: 4-3
21:35:47 <Mucleus>: hell yes
21:35:51 <Mucleus>: this is an awesome match

21:37:32 <Mucleus>: oh wow
21:37:34 <EWQMinesweeper>: 64
21:37:38 <Mucleus>: just in the process of hitting my fourth mine
21:37:39 <EWQMinesweeper>: 5-3
21:37:42 <Mucleus>: two right at the start
21:37:44 <EWQMinesweeper>: lol
21:37:47 <EWQMinesweeper>: no mines

21:39:19 <EWQMinesweeper>: 59
21:39:21 <EWQMinesweeper>: 6-3
21:39:26 <Mucleus>: noooooooo
21:39:28 <EWQMinesweeper>: close!
21:39:30 <Mucleus>: I would have beaten that
21:39:40 <Mucleus>: any mines?
21:39:48 <EWQMinesweeper>: no
21:39:58 <Mucleus>: well played
21:40:07 <EWQMinesweeper>: thanks

21:41:23 <EWQMinesweeper>: 59 and 0 mines

21:43:52 <EWQMinesweeper>: ready, ian?
21:44:10 <NYMIKE>: lets go ian comeback
21:44:13 <Mucleus>: apparently about 40 on slow
21:44:16 <Mucleus>: okay fritz
21:44:24 <Mucleus>: that can be halftime
21:44:32 <EWQMinesweeper>: lol

21:45:51 <EWQMinesweeper>: 52
21:45:53 <Mucleus>: nice board
21:45:58 <EWQMinesweeper>: now we're talking
21:46:01 <EWQMinesweeper>: 8-3
21:46:04 <Mucleus>: I hit a mine
21:46:10 <EWQMinesweeper>: ouch

21:47:33 <EWQMinesweeper>: 59
21:47:36 <EWQMinesweeper>: 9-3
21:47:38 <Mucleus>: noooo last square
21:47:44 <EWQMinesweeper>: aww
21:47:48 <EWQMinesweeper>: sucks

21:49:10 <EWQMinesweeper>: 58
21:49:12 <EWQMinesweeper>: 10-3

21:49:18 <EWQMinesweeper>: good game ian
21:49:21 <EWQMinesweeper>: thanks for the match
21:49:24 <Mucleus>: well played indeed
21:49:28 <Mucleus>: and thank you too

[Dayan Marchezi]

Arsen vs. Dayan | 10:3

[Tommy]

10-5 Tommy-Luke

[Tommy]

10-0 Tommy-Aris

I have to add that I was in extremely good shape there.

[KamilSaper]

Kamil-David 13:1

[EWQMinesweeper]

tommy - fritz 1-13

18:14 EWQMinesweeper 61
18:14 EWQMinesweeper 1 stupid mine
18:16 EWQMinesweeper 67

18:16 EWQMinesweeper again 1 mine
18:16 tkolar I got a lag during the end
18:16 EWQMinesweeper wanna replay the game?
18:17 tkolar it's OK

18:18 EWQMinesweeper 64
18:18 EWQMinesweeper 1 mine

18:20 EWQMinesweeper 57
18:20 tkolar I keep getting lags here
18:20 tkolar I'm in a wlan network atm
18:20 EWQMinesweeper hm...
18:21 tkolar I think I'll look for an ethernet link
18:21 EWQMinesweeper ok
18:23 tkolar brb

18:27 tkolar http://minesweeperlive.com/bring.php?gid=44685
18:29 EWQMinesweeper 54

18:30 EWQMinesweeper 53
18:30 tkolar is that 6-0?

18:30 tkolar nice times BTW
18:30 EWQMinesweeper thx
18:31 EWQMinesweeper matches are way too close for my taste
18:31 tkolar @EWQMinesweeper?
18:31 EWQMinesweeper you said you had a lag in the first 4 games
18:32 tkolar EWQMinesweeper, you there?
18:32 EWQMinesweeper i'm here
18:32 EWQMinesweeper but my parents want to eat dinner now
18:32 EWQMinesweeper can we resume our match in 15min?
18:33 EWQMinesweeper afk
18:33 tkolar yeah, but now I need to get into the game again
18:33 tkolar which takes a while
18:34 tkolar are we at 6-0?
18:34 tkolar OK
18:36 jsem lol fritz..
18:36 jsem 6-0?
18:36 jsem u gotta step up to the plate tomas
18:39 jsem hes been bugging u abt this
18:39 jsem forever
18:39 jsem now that ur playing... hes gotta pull out lol

18:42 EWQMinesweeper back
18:47 EWQMinesweeper tkolar?
18:48 tkolar you wanna warm up?
18:48 EWQMinesweeper it's up to you
18:48 tkolar since I did while you were gone
18:48 tkolar you ready?
18:48 EWQMinesweeper sure

18:48 tkolar http://minesweeperlive.com/bring.php?gid=44687
18:50 EWQMinesweeper 62
18:50 EWQMinesweeper 7-0?

18:51 EWQMinesweeper 51
18:51 EWQMinesweeper that must've been close

18:52 EWQMinesweeper 56

18:54 EWQMinesweeper 51

18:55 EWQMinesweeper 68
18:55 EWQMinesweeper 2 mines
18:55 EWQMinesweeper misflag almost killed me

18:56 EWQMinesweeper 48

18:58 EWQMinesweeper 53
18:58 EWQMinesweeper but tommy won
18:58 tkolar YESS
18:58 EWQMinesweeper argh
18:58 tkolar 12-1
18:58 EWQMinesweeper 12-1
18:58 EWQMinesweeper and i even finished this one

18:59 EWQMinesweeper 56

18:59 tkolar OK nice
18:59 EWQMinesweeper thanks for the match
19:00 EWQMinesweeper gg
19:00 tkolar 13-1
19:00 tkolar yeah, sorry for the delay
19:00 tkolar same to you

[EWQMinesweeper]

14:04 EWQMinesweeper pavel
14:04 EWQMinesweeper do you want a warm up game?
14:04 EWQMinesweeper i'm already warmed up
14:06 Pavel i'm warmed up too
14:06 EWQMinesweeper http://minesweeperlive.com/bring.php?gid=45112
14:06 EWQMinesweeper great
14:06 EWQMinesweeper good luck
14:07 Pavel good luck)

14:08 EWQMinesweeper 56
14:08 Pavel 2 hits
14:08 EWQMinesweeper ouch
14:08 EWQMinesweeper 1-0

14:09 Pavel тще щзут
14:09 Pavel not open
14:09 EWQMinesweeper game doesn't count then
14:09 EWQMinesweeper can you send a new link?
14:09 Pavel ok
14:10 Pavel http://minesweeperlive.com/bring.php?gid=45113
14:11 EWQMinesweeper 53
14:11 EWQMinesweeper 2-0
14:11 Pavel i'm finished too(
14:12 EWQMinesweeper time?
14:12 Pavel 55
14:13 EWQMinesweeper 57
14:13 EWQMinesweeper finished but lost

14:13 Pavel 57
14:13 EWQMinesweeper 2-1

14:14 EWQMinesweeper 52
14:15 EWQMinesweeper 3-1

14:16 EWQMinesweeper 2 avoidable mines
14:16 EWQMinesweeper 3-2
14:16 Pavel 67, 1 hit

14:18 EWQMinesweeper 52
14:18 EWQMinesweeper 4-2
14:18 Pavel 1 hit in the end

14:19 EWQMinesweeper 52
14:19 EWQMinesweeper 5-2
14:19 Pavel ouch
14:19 Pavel finished in 52
14:19 EWQMinesweeper ouch

14:21 EWQMinesweeper 52
14:21 EWQMinesweeper 6-2

14:23 EWQMinesweeper 57
14:23 EWQMinesweeper 7-2
14:23 Pavel 1 hit
14:24 aradesh go pavel!

14:24 EWQMinesweeper 65 with 1 mine
14:24 EWQMinesweeper 8-2
14:25 EWQMinesweeper such close games...
14:25 Pavel yeah)

14:26 EWQMinesweeper 58 with 1 mine
14:26 EWQMinesweeper 9-2
14:26 Pavel i lost mine
14:28 EWQMinesweeper nice

14:28 Pavel 52
14:28 EWQMinesweeper 9-3

14:29 EWQMinesweeper 55
14:29 EWQMinesweeper 10-3

14:31 EWQMinesweeper 51
14:31 EWQMinesweeper 11-3
14:31 Pavel nice

14:32 Pavel 58, 1 hit
14:32 EWQMinesweeper 11-4
14:32 EWQMinesweeper 4 clicks to go

14:34 EWQMinesweeper 49
14:34 EWQMinesweeper 12-4
14:34 Pavel so fast
14:34 EWQMinesweeper i wish i was this fast in all my games
14:35 EWQMinesweeper 3 months ago my mslive avg was easily 52

14:36 EWQMinesweeper 55 with 1 mine
14:36 EWQMinesweeper 13-4
14:36 Pavel 3 mines
14:36 EWQMinesweeper ouch

14:38 EWQMinesweeper 55
14:38 Pavel 2 mines again
14:38 EWQMinesweeper had to search 2s for the last square
14:38 EWQMinesweeper 14-4

14:39 EWQMinesweeper 50
14:39 EWQMinesweeper 15-4

14:41 EWQMinesweeper 51
14:41 EWQMinesweeper 16-4
14:41 Pavel 1 hit in the end
14:41 EWQMinesweeper ouch

14:42 EWQMinesweeper 61
14:42 EWQMinesweeper 17-4

14:44 EWQMinesweeper 58
14:44 EWQMinesweeper 18-4
14:44 Pavel many hits in last games

14:45 EWQMinesweeper 46
14:45 EWQMinesweeper 19-4
14:45 Pavel nice

14:46 EWQMinesweeper pavel?
14:48 EWQMinesweeper 68 with 2 mines
14:48 EWQMinesweeper 19-5
14:48 Pavel извини за ожидание
14:48 Pavel sorry for waiting

14:49 EWQMinesweeper 51
14:49 EWQMinesweeper 20-5

14:49 Pavel congrats)
14:49 EWQMinesweeper thanks for the match
14:49 EWQMinesweeper thx
14:50 Pavel thx you too
14:50 EWQMinesweeper whole match was way closer than 20-5
14:50 EWQMinesweeper by the time we have the 2011 mslive tournament you're most likely gonna beat me

[joni]

Nice to hear we're finally nearing the end of this championship . Below is an answer to Fritz call for feedback regarding it

I did not participate in this Minelive tournament as a player, but i did in the previous one, and though i can't call myself as the organiser of that one, i was quite involved in it.

The main positive thing with the first tournament, compared to the second, was that the organiser (minesweeperlive admin) had set very clear deadlines as to how long each stage was going to be, though these proved to be overly optimistic in some cases they were extended with just a handful of days, not any more! This meant that the users were informed from the beginning how long the tournament was going to last and by registering to the tournament had committed to play a certain amount of games in a certain amount of time, if they didn't respect this commitment they were out... Today, on the other hand, you have no right whatsoever to blame Kamil if he can't play for the next month because he is on vacation, because you didn't tell him the final was going to be in July(!!!) when he applied for a tournament in April...

The main positive thing with the second tournament was that the quality of the opposition was really high! Ours was open to all minesweeperlive members which meant a much more varied starting field.

A negative thing both tournaments shared was the relative failure of the group stages.

In the first tournament the group stage was supposed to last 10 days, with admin allowing himself 2 days of gap to put together the results and make the draw for the final round before the start of the quarterfinals. In reality the group stage was extended to two more days to 12 total, eating up the 'gap days', with the quarterfinals starting as planned. 21 players were to partecipate in the group stages, with three groups of 5 and one of 6. Less than 50% of the games were played in the end (22/45), with one group (incidentally the bigger one!) standing for the bulk of those with 13 out of 15 possible.

In the second tournament the group stage was to last three weeks (if i remember correctly), 16 players partecipating in groups of four, yet i doubt more than 50% of the games were played come the deadline (Fritz please correct me with the actual data as i don't have access to it), despite having more time, less games to be played and the advantage of having only world ranked players, which one would have expected to be less inclined to forfeit games and probably to make communication easier...

The greatest success story we have from the group stages is group 4 in the first tournament, a group containing 6 players: two from the U.S. (one on the Pacific time zone, one central), one from the UK (GMT), two from mainland Europe (CET, inluding myself ) and one from Australia. Instead of every player contacting the other five independently (which would have resulted in 15 different communication channels) we started a thread in the forum where all the players posted their availability and tried to get together as many players as possible on a single occasion. It wasn't easy of course, considering the number of time zones involved, but it was sure much more efficient than trying to agree on 15 different meetings, in one particular meeting we got done with half of the groups matches! It required the players accepting a compromise of playing at unfavorable times, but this didn't influence the outcome of the group.

The final stage of the first tournament was (overoptimistically) planned to last four days. It lasted 10 instead, which means the finalists played roughly a round every three days, something quite acceptable. This meant also that more public could be present in the channel those days and assist to the live updates of the games (it would be really cool to watch the games for real of course, but we don't have that privilege as yet). From the public point of view the second tournament was not good at all, as though I actively tried to be present at matches, i managed to assist in only one from the group stages...

To summarise, i have come up to the following points from the experience of these two tournaments:
* the tournament shouldn't take more than four weeks! (seriously, playing minesweeper is not that demanding, neither physically nor psychologically, what takes time is agreeing a date/time suitable for both players and the more time they have in their hands the more it will take...)
* hard deadlines are a must! ( i would suggest two weeks for the group stages and three to four days per round following that, but that can be discussed)
* having forum threads instead of every user privately contacting the others improves the communication efficiency and could provide for more games played, better meeting deadlines, and more public being present at the group stage games.
* having someone who acts as an official organizer (preferrably one not playing as admin was last time around, but it worked ok with fritz too). I would want from him/her to even try to get actively involved to make sure matches are played and things run smoothly, rather than just stay passive and disqualify people when deadlines have passed.

* The players should be asked to make some comittments before registering for the tournament. I would propose the following:
A player should
- be prepared to play about a match every three days for the duration of the tournament.
- check the tournament communication channel (e-mail/forum/guestbook/whatever it might be) frequently during the tournament, at least once a day but preferrably more often.
- be prepared to compromise on a playing time that might not be their most suited.
- be prepared to play multiple matches in a short interval of time if needed.
- play on the agreed time/before the deadline even if they don't feel "on form". (In real tournaments matches don't get postponed if a player has an injury or is in poor form... the player can either chose to retire and come back next time or play anyway... postponing is not an option)

* Talking about enhancing the public experience, is there any possibility for the admin, or someone else for him, to improve the software to provide some live feed of the game? that would be surely amazing! If not, even some kind of replay to watch afterwards would be really interesting!

This was what i had to say from my experience in both tournaments, feel free to comment (agree or disagree or come up with other stuff from your own experience.

[EWQMinesweeper]

@joni: thank you very much for your detailed answer. i agree with everything you wrote. about watching mslive games: the mslive admin wrote me he is unable to find or re-use the codes from the first tourny for watching the matches live. both players using screen captures programs might work, only, we haven't tried it yet.